Dallas police officer Amber Guyger fired after fatally shooting neighbor Botham

[Desert_Fox]

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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/24/dallas-police-officer-amber-guyger-fired-after-fatally-shooting-neighbor-botham-jean.html?cmpid=prn_msn

Dallas police officer Amber Guyger was fired Monday, officials said, weeks after a racially-charged shooting in which the off-duty white cop killed her black neighbor, Botham Jean.

An investigation determined Guyger “engaged in adverse conduct when she was arrested for manslaughter,” Dallas police Chief Renee Hall said in a statement, adding Guyger may appeal her termination.

Guyger was arrested on a manslaughter charge after she shot and killed Jean earlier this month. An arrest affidavit obtained by Fox News said Botham allegedly ignored Guyger’s “verbal commands” before she opened fire.

 
Guyger had recently ended a 15-hour shift when she returned in uniform to the South Side Flats apartment complex. She parked on the fourth floor, instead of the third, where she lived, according to an affidavit filed for the officer’s arrest warrant, possibly suggesting she was confused or disoriented at the time of the shooting.

She said she entered the apartment — which she allegedly believed to be her own — after realizing the door was unlocked and slightly ajar and then saw a figure in the darkness. Guyger allegedly gave verbal commands, because she believed her apartment was being burglarized, and then drew her weapon and fired twice, the affidavit said.

 

". . . those who claim to know the Mind of God, who will tell you what God thinks and how He will judge and condemn others—those people are the greatest of all blasphemers." Aloysius Xingu Leng Pendergast

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[olecapt]

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The odds are she walks.  And may even get rehired.

there is no doubt about her liability.  But in fact the legal battle will likely be as to whether the DPD has any role.

The criminality however will be tougher.  Her story will be she directed the person to put up his hands and stand still and he did not comply.  So she feared for her life and fired.  Odds are that will carry the day with one or more members of the jury.

[Desert_Fox]

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Unfortunately you’re right.  Juries all too often side with a cop no matter the evidence and in this case we only have the cop’s word.

". . . those who claim to know the Mind of God, who will tell you what God thinks and how He will judge and condemn others—those people are the greatest of all blasphemers." Aloysius Xingu Leng Pendergast

[BadBoyz]

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Okay… Close your eyes and imagine that Botham Jean is white. Same results… I hardly think so.

#TRAITORTRUMP4PRISON!

[basilfawlty]

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Why only Manslaughter

[basilfawlty]

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Silly you, if you close your eyes everything is BLACK

[basilfawlty]

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Why not………..it obviously works well in the USA….STAND STILL or else……..whoops I just shot that 3 yr old kid

[BadBoyz]

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#TRAITORTRUMP4PRISON!

[Desert_Fox]

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basilfawlty wrote:

Why only Manslaughter

A lack of premeditation.

". . . those who claim to know the Mind of God, who will tell you what God thinks and how He will judge and condemn others—those people are the greatest of all blasphemers." Aloysius Xingu Leng Pendergast

[Dragon]

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Desert_Fox wrote:

basilfawlty wrote:

Why only Manslaughter

A lack of premeditation.

If Botham had accidently entered the wrong apartment, had given Guyger verbal commands and then shot her dead, do you think he’d be charged with manslaughter?

[Gale]

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Dragon wrote:

Desert_Fox wrote:

basilfawlty wrote:

Why only Manslaughter

A lack of premeditation.

If Botham had accidently entered the wrong apartment, had given Guyger verbal commands and then shot her dead, do you think he’d be charged with manslaughter?

Not a chance.

“I take no responsibility at all.” Donald Trump
“Anyone who wants a test can get a test.” Donald Trump

[olecapt]

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Dragon wrote:

Desert_Fox wrote:

basilfawlty wrote:

Why only Manslaughter

A lack of premeditation.

If Botham had accidently entered the wrong apartment, had given Guyger verbal commands and then shot her dead, do you think he’d be charged with manslaughter?

I would think he would have ended up with manslaughter.  But he is not a cop.  And you get into this “failed to comply I feared for my life” when it is an officer.

I would however expect that if  Jean had been armed and killed the officer he would have walked. And I doubt he would have gone to trial.  Might have been initially arrested but they would never have tried him.

[Dragon]

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How is this not felony murder? The intruder illegally entered the premises and killed the occupant without provocation.

[olecapt]

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Dragon wrote:

How is this not felony murder? The intruder illegally entered the premises and killed the occupant without provocation.

Her story will be she said  “POLICE – raise your arms where I CAN SEE YOUR HANDS”,  And the large individual instead stepped toward her.  She then feared for her life or well being and shot him.

There is no evidence whether she could tell if he was black or not.  The layout of the apartment unfortunately gave her no clue it was not hers…a long hall from the door to the living area is what she could see likely with him silhouetted against the limited light in the living area.  He was apparently sitting in a darkened room eating cereal and watching a football game dressed in underwear.

I describe both of these people as victims of the second amendment.

That amendment has the downside that the proliferation of firearms leads to the presumption that anyone clearly not armed is presumed  armed.  And peace officers can proceed on that assumption.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 6 months ago by olecapt.

[Dragon]

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Except that she wasn’t a there as a police officer. She was an armed intruder on private property with no authority to be ordering anyone to do anything. There was no crime in progress, no danger to life or property. The only suspicious activity was her own, and that concluded with her killing an innocent man.

Texas Penal Code § 19.02(b)(3),[1] states that “a person commits murder if he ‘commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, he commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual.'”

The felony in progress here is Assault with a Deadly Weapon (negligently causing bodily injury to another with a dangerous weapon ). Is there any question she was negligent during the course of this incident?

Looks like felony murder to me.

[olecapt]

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Dragon wrote:

Except that she wasn’t a there as a police officer. She was an armed intruder on private property with no authority to be ordering anyone to do anything. There was no crime in progress, no danger to life or property. The only suspicious activity was her own, and that concluded with her killing an innocent man. Texas Penal Code § 19.02(b)(3),[1] states that “a person commits murder if he ‘commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, he commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual.’” The felony in progress here is Assault with a Deadly Weapon (negligently causing bodily injury to another with a dangerous weapon ). Is there any question she was negligent during the course of this incident? Looks like felony murder to me.

Of course she was.  Standard peace officer gimmick.  They are never off duty.  And once she says “POLICE” she is there.  And failure to comply with the directives of a police officer who then fears for his life is virtually always a successful defense against murder.

In this case they are attempting manslaughter on the basis she was reckless or negligent in being where she was.  But they will likely fail as the defense will convince one or more jurors she was in her police officer mode with a non compliant suspect.

[Dragon]

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olecapt wrote:

Dragon wrote:

Except that she wasn’t a there as a police officer. She was an armed intruder on private property with no authority to be ordering anyone to do anything. There was no crime in progress, no danger to life or property. The only suspicious activity was her own, and that concluded with her killing an innocent man. Texas Penal Code § 19.02(b)(3),[1] states that “a person commits murder if he ‘commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, he commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual.’” The felony in progress here is Assault with a Deadly Weapon (negligently causing bodily injury to another with a dangerous weapon ). Is there any question she was negligent during the course of this incident? Looks like felony murder to me.

Of course she was. Standard peace officer gimmick. They are never off duty. And once she says “POLICE” she is there. And failure to comply with the directives of a police officer who then fears for his life is virtually always a successful defense against murder.

In this case they are attempting manslaughter on the basis she was reckless or negligent in being where she was. But they will likely fail as the defense will convince one or more jurors she was in her police officer mode with a non compliant suspect.

A “police officer mode” defense could be her undoing. As an officer of the law, she knows better than anyone else that you do no draw your weapon and point it at someone unless you intend to use it. It is her intent at that moment that the state can use to show that the killing was indeed felony murder under the law. She didn’t “accidentally” shoot Jean. It was a deliberate and conscious act that she performed after she entered the darkened apartment without the owner’s knowledge or consent.

I’d like to know what her tox screen showed after the incident. If there wasn’t one, I’d like to know why. If anyone, let alone a police officer, comes home so disoriented that she wanders into the wrong apartment, I think it’s reasonable to suspect that she was impaired, and the homicide that followed was a direct result of that impairment.

Any way you look at it, her defense team is going to have to earn their money to get her out of this jam she put herself in.

[basilfawlty]

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Thank goodness our normal police officers, do not carry

[olecapt]

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Dragon wrote:

Except that she wasn’t a there as a police officer. She was an armed intruder on private property with no authority to be ordering anyone to do anything. There was no crime in progress, no danger to life or property. The only suspicious activity was her own, and that concluded with her killing an innocent man. Texas Penal Code § 19.02(b)(3),[1] states that “a person commits murder if he ‘commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, he commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual.’” The felony in progress here is Assault with a Deadly Weapon (negligently causing bodily injury to another with a dangerous weapon ). Is there any question she was negligent during the course of this incident? Looks like felony murder to me.

Police officer.  Different laws.  Closest similar would be a swat team busting a wrong address and killing the home owner who resists.

She was impaired but I think only by a 15 hour work day on a task force grabbing bad guys.  There were blood samples takes but they have not been reported.  She did not have time between getting off duty and the incident to have gotten drunk.   Pot in the car?  I would think she would have waited until in the apartment.

 

[Dragon]

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These other situations you’re using for comparison are police officers on duty acting in their official capacities. Although we expect our law enforcement officers to obey the same laws we do, their official standing while on the job gives them some protection against taking personal responsibility for a misdirected group effort.

Guyger was on her own time. She was armed and she was trespassing and she killed a citizen who posed no danger to anyone. If she misread the situation, tough, she owns it.

It’s no different than a tired you walking into your neighbor’s home, finding him sitting in front of the TV in the dark and shooting him dead. That may not have been your intent before you walked in his door, but you made that homicidal decision and you cannot take it back. It wasn’t an accident, it was reckless and callous deadly force lacking sufficient justification for such extreme action.

[Desert_Fox]

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Dragon wrote:

These other situations you’re using for comparison are police officers on duty acting in their official capacities. Although we expect our law enforcement officers to obey the same laws we do, their official standing while on the job gives them some protection against taking personal responsibility for a misdirected group effort. Guyger was on her own time. She was armed and she was trespassing and she killed a citizen who posed no danger to anyone. If she misread the situation, tough, she owns it. It’s no different than a tired you walking into your neighbor’s home, finding him sitting in front of the TV in the dark and shooting him dead. That may not have been your intent before you walked in his door, but you made that homicidal decision and you cannot take it back. It wasn’t an accident, it was reckless and callous deadly force lacking sufficient justification for such extreme action.

I agree with what you say but we are dealing with a white cop going before a jury in Texas where she shot and killed a black man.  Unarmed though he was, the chances of the jury heeding the only person’s account who was in the room is quite large in Dallas.

That may not be the way it should be but in Texas that is most likely the way it will be.

". . . those who claim to know the Mind of God, who will tell you what God thinks and how He will judge and condemn others—those people are the greatest of all blasphemers." Aloysius Xingu Leng Pendergast

[Author]

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